Sonny Balani is the CEO of Balani Custom Clothing, a family clothing business which he inherited from his father. Sonny originally went to school for Finance at Michigan State University before growing into the family business working with his father.

Sonny also is a member of the Board of Directors for Accelerated Growth Advisors, which provides consulting services for entrepreneurial companies looking to develop and sustain growth.

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[01:33] Where does Balani Custom Clothing come from?
[10:56] Core Values translate beyond employees to customers
[22:47] Culture grows from the team to the rest of the company

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1: From core values to valued culture. Here is your host Will Scott interviewing another CEO about leading culture in their company.

Will Scott: Hello listeners and welcome to another Culture Czars interview where we talk to CEOs that care about corporate culture. We call this series form core values to valued culture and Sonny is CEO and Czar of Culture at Balani Custom Clothing. Hi Sonny.

Sonny: Hi, how you doing? First off, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it Will.

Will Scott: No, it's great. Yeah, people seem to like talking about the culture at their companies.

Sonny: Well, it's certainly one of the more fun things to talk about of everything we do so I guess if it's working too it's more fun.

Will Scott: That's what I look to keep reminding people and in fact, I'd look to say. Listeners, a few things that you can do in your company that don't cost that much in terms of capital investment that are super rewarding, and fun to do.

Sonny: For sure.

Will Scott: Yeah. Before we talk about culture at Custom Balani Clothing, Sonny, tell us a little bit about your organization.

Sonny: So, my father actually started Balani Custom Clothings in 1961, and it was always a small sole proprietorship. So I grew up around the business I would say, but I was never involved and candidly I didn't really have an interesting in joining the business. This small sole proprietorship. I didn't feel like it was that much to jump into and take over and so I actually watched the movie Wall Street when I was really young and I caught that bug of trading and I used to read all the trading books and things like that, and so I went into finance and I ended up going into banking and trading for several years. Which was an awesome career. It was throughout my 20s. It was the late 90s so it was a very fun time to be a trader.

Sonny: And then I ended up transitioning careers out of that business in 2002, and during that period I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do next, and I was sitting waiting for a new opportunity and I was like, "Oh, well. Let me help my dad while I'm waiting." And so as I started to get a little bit older and realize maybe there is an opportunity to change this business and build it. Now, I'd say the one downside was that I came out of trading and so I had zero tangible skill sets to running a business. And so I had to learn everything from my dad who is not the ... he was more of a let me show you how to do this one time and then you're gonna do it. And so that was challenging to learn the business. And so I took my time learning the business and what the business is, it's a custom clothing company where we take measurements of folks and we show them different fabrics and then we build a product that's made to their specification in terms of custom suits, work coats, slacks. The whole gambit of men's tailored wear.

Sonny: And so, after I learned that process I started to hire. And started to build a team. And so that was very, very challenging to try and understand how to do that without that previous experience, but I will say I also joined accelerator which is an EO [Entrepreneur’s Organization] program and I joined EO. And so these things really helped me understand how to build a business but also understand more about culture and all the things that we're talking about today.

Will Scott: Yeah, and when you first started hiring those people was corporate culture even in your dictionary? Did you have core values or anything like that?

Sonny: It's funny, I think core values and culture at least at a small business level where my perspective is: I wanted to hire people that I connected with and that I felt had similar values, and similar aspirations to what I had. And so, one of the first hires we had was ... I was on a business trip of all places in St Croix in the Virgin Islands and I was at the bar with a friend, and I noticed this bartender who was there who was six foot eight, had a very magna minus presence to him and he just commanded the room. And so, I really liked him and six months later I was there on another business trip and he happened to be there again and my friend was not. So I got to talking to him and so, it's funny, I think he had such a unique personality I couldn't let it go. And this is when we probably had three or four people on the team. I offered him the position with us and I said, "What are you doing ... what's your story?" He told me he was a physics major in college and he played semi-pro volleyball all over the world, and he just wanted to have different experiences. He was such a unique charismatic guy.

Will Scott: Yeah.

Sonny: I said, "I think you'd be perfect for what we do. First of all, you're six foot eight, you've got a presence to you in terms of clothing." And so, I had had a few cocktails into me and I'm sure he thought I was just crazy and talking nonsense, but I ended up saying, "Let me comp you a couple of shirts. I want you to experience our clothing."

Sonny: And so I literally took him into the kitchen, took his measurements on the back of a server tab. And he was gracious. I took his measurements and I'm sure he thought he'd never hear from me. Lo and behold I sent him a couple of shirts and then he gives me a call and said, "Wow, you just changed my life. I'm six foot eight, I've never had anything that has fit me before in my entire life. I can't tell you how happy I am." And so this is a bold move on my part too. I said, "Why don't you come to Chicago and meet my team. I'll pick up the tab, I'll fly you down for the weekend." I told my wife, she thought I was totally crazy. She's like, "Wait, what were you having at this bar that you met this guy in St Croix."

Sonny: And so fast forward, he ended up joining our team and he's been with me for eight years now.

Will Scott: Seriously?

Sonny: And he is one of our top salespeople in the entire country, and he just bought a house. He's just been an amazing rock throughout. And so what I'd say is I don't think I knew what culture was but I knew what type of person and values and things like that, and later on I think they got defined as we started to build that team and bringing people in that were similar to that. Then later on we saw, "Oh, there's common themes here that we can recognize."

Will Scott: Sonny, I've known you quite a while but I've never heard that story. That's an awesome story and-

Sonny: Thank you.

Will Scott: Helped define your culture and of course how you lead too. That's super interesting.

Sonny: Yep.

Will Scott: So, when we talk about corporate culture, what does that mean for you? What do you think we're talking about in the context of Balani?

Sonny: I think it means that ... it defines how you're going to manage, how you're going to hire, how you're going to fire. How everybody's going to come into work that day. How they're going to approach each other, approach you, how I'm going to approach them. And every company does approach things very differently. I would say we're very collaborative and I work on trying to keep it that especially because we're a sales team.

Will Scott: Yeah.

Sonny: I really think it's just how you come into work every day and how you approach problems or different challenges.

Will Scott: So, it sounds like it's pretty at the core of everything.

Sonny: I would say it very much is, and we do manage to it. And I think what ends up happening is the culture becomes stronger or I'd say maybe the core values become stronger every time they become tested. And they certainly do become tested over time.

Will Scott: Yeah.

Sonny: And every now and then you slip. Everybody does. You go backwards, you break a core value. You make an exception for an employee, and then it makes you either redefine the culture and the core values or you got to go back and make it stronger again.

Will Scott: Yeah, yeah. How did you initially come to write down your core values? What was the process you used for that?

Sonny: As I said, I think it slowly evolved to where we loosely understood what it was, what kind of person we were looking for. And then about three or four years ago ... we did always have core values but I'd say about three or four years ago we revisited the entire process to redefine them. And I went through a scaling up exercise, which for those who are not familiar it's a book.

Will Scott: A book, yeah.

Sonny: And the exercise was to pick one of the employees that exemplified what you felt like was on the team, and it wasn't just me it was a few of our team members that voted and decided who really exemplified the core values of what we represented. And then we single that individual out. Kind of define what made those characteristics and traits right for our fit. And then we built on those, wordsmithing them in terms of making them stronger and better. And the funny thing is it's that same employee that we picked.

Will Scott: I was gonna ask you that. What's his name, by the way? The guy from St Croix.

Sonny: His name is Court.

Will Scott: Court?

Sonny: Yeah.

Will Scott: Okay, okay. That's awesome. So, what is one of your core values?

Sonny: I'll share this with you later too but we're actually in a process of revisiting them right now to try and slim them down to make them more simple. But they are win as a team, lose as a team. Leverage unique personalities and backgrounds. Seek results the right way. Elevate those around you. Challenges not problems, and make success a habit.

Will Scott: Nice. So you've got some unique language there that you're using.

Sonny: Yep.

Will Scott: What was the elevate one?

Sonny: Elevate those around you.

Will Scott: Elevate those around you. So, how do you make that happen? How do you make that come alive?

Sonny: We have what we call the Balani buddy program which is a mentorship program where senior clothier's on the team have the ability to be able to help the other team members that are younger and newer on the team to be able to grow and develop. And so, I'm always a big believer that you never really learn something until you have to teach it because you have to figure out how to articulate it, how to explain it and you have to reflect and think like, you're not just doing. You have to say why does this work? Why do I do it this way? And there's a lot of learning that I think happens throughout that process. I think it very much benefits both the mentor and the mentee.

Will Scott: That's super. So, elevate those around you. You've got a program that's really making that happen. Do you also think about, I mean, I'm wondering if you extend that through to your customers too, because when your customer comes in and they're about to walk out in some sharp suit. Are you not also elevating them?

Sonny: With every core value I wrote, and our core purpose and our mission. Everything I put together I wrote with the intention of it should translate to our business model, our clothiers and our clients.

Will Scott: Yeah.

Sonny: And so, that is very, very, very much true. For instance, our core purpose is, and I'm gonna make sure I get this right here. Which is, or our vision here is to have the best custom clothing team on the planet. So, when people think custom they think Balani. And that really is ... obviously what we do is a product based business. However, our vision is really about the people, because at the end of the day we're a very highly interactive business that we have to connect with the folks that are our clients. We're trying to instill, as you said, confidence in our clients. But by doing that also our clothier's can instill confidence in themselves because they get to help other people and be able to dress, and look the part, and feel great.

Will Scott: Yeah. That's awesome. So you're not just leading a company there at Balani. You really are leading the culture which extends beyond the company.

Sonny: We are trying. I always say we're trying. Yeah, one other one I'll jump in on that's one of my favorites that I think has resonated with folks throughout the years is challenges, not problems. I always talk about this on our opening training day, because we are in a custom clothing business where there is measurements, style. There are so many things that can go wrong and then we have a Type-A driven client that is extremely demanding. Many of them are hedge fund managers. They're lawyers. They're used to getting their way.

Sonny: Part of this is having a mentality that challenges are going to happen. There are going to be mistakes. There's going to be delays, there's going to be situations but it's all about how you handle them. If you wake up in the morning and say, "Oh my gosh. I checked my email and I have four problems." You come in very negative and not the best framework. However, if you come and be like, "Okay, we have four challenges we got to solve today." And we come in as a collaborative team and try an help and leverage the experience of everybody in the team, 'cause most likely someone seen what you have before happening. Then it becomes a completely different experience and you come in wanting to solve those problems and wanting to take care of those things and not putting them at the bottom of your desk and saying, "I'll get to them later." It's like, "Let's go do them now."

Sonny: And so, we really push for that to make sure that our clients get the benefit of it and that we just solve problems faster, it's a culture.

Will Scott: So, I think you mentioned at the beginning there that when you get new employees. It's part of your training. It's training on the core values.

Sonny: Correct. Typically that is my presentation on the kick-off day which actually we're doing again next week. We have typically a training program of about five new people starting at the same time. And so, I do that kick-off speech. I tell a story of how we got started as a business. How we've grown and then I do go into the core values and I typically tell a story about each and every core value about how I came to that core value and why, and why it's important. To illustrate to them how important it is.

Will Scott: That's awesome. Stories are the best way of course to reinforce values and help people remember them.

Sonny: Yeah.

Will Scott: Tell us one of those stories for one of the values.

Sonny: I'll share the one that is make success a habit. And this is a newer one that we had, and so the reason I added this is we had a clothier here in Chicago in our location here. Which, he was great. He always came in and he had great interactions with clients. People really liked him. He built strong relationships, but then sometimes he would totally check out. He was just so inconsistent about it where it was just a turn on, turn off type thing. And so, I had continuously talked to him about it and said, "You can't just turn it on and off." and so, one time I sat down with him and he had a pretty bad screw up and he wasn't communicating with the client effectively. And so I said, "what's the deal here. You've had all these great interactions. I know you're capable of doing all this." And so, he ended up pushing back at me and saying, "Well, look at all the great yelp reviews I have." Which is what we really push for.

Will Scott: Yeah.

Sonny: And look at all the great client interactions we have, and I said, "That's great but what about this particular situation?" And he's like, "Well, I did all these things." He's like, "Do you expect me to do this every day?" And I was like, "Yes." It was a very surreal experience but I realized on our core values we didn't have anything about doing it consistently. Which is the reason I decided to add that and candidly in the process over time we ended up terminating him as an employee because even though he was good, he just didn't do it every day, and I couldn't have inconsistent results with our clients.

Will Scott: Yeah. That's a story you tell that helps people illustrate, and then that tells them, "Oh, so I need to do this every day with the core values and give every customer the same experience." Yeah.

Sonny: Yeah. And I would say that's one of those situations that was very hard because I liked him personally, and I think at times he performed very well at the position, but then the times he didn't it was so bad that I was like, "All right. Well, this is just against what I believe." Right? Personally.

Will Scott: Yeah.

Sonny: I believe you should come to work every day and perform. Not when you feel like it.

Will Scott: Yeah, yeah. And of course I'm sure the culture in the whole company kicked up a little notch when you made that decision, and people respect it and they see that you are leading with your values.

Sonny: Yeah, exactly.

Will Scott: Yeah. Well, that's cool. So, and then ... so you've trained them. Now they're on board. Are there things that you do that keep the core values alive and thriving in an everyday sense?

Sonny: We have a plaque that I put together on a acrylic type glass piece that's in every ... so, now we're in 14 locations around the country. So, we have that at every location.

Will Scott: Congratulations, by the way. That's awesome.

Sonny: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. It's been a fun, long journey but it's been awesome. And so, we have that plaque up and it was funny, I remember I went to our Houston location, and this was always supposed to be in the back office or in the kitchen. And when I went to our Houston location I realized they actually had it out in the front of the showroom. I was about to put it away and be like, "This is supposed to be for the back office." And then I realized, "Oh my gosh. I should be ... they're so proud of it they put it out in the front. What would I be saying and sending a message to them if I pulled it and put it in the back?" So, I left it out there and lo and behold they know it really well now, because they see it on a daily basis, and even the clients see it. And so they know what the expectations are of your team because they put it out there, not me.

Will Scott: What does that plaque say on it? And how do you award it?

Sonny: It's a plaque that has our core values, our mission, our vision. It talks about our process which some of this is like competitive intelligence. Like the way we do things. Which is why I didn't wanna leave it out, but I also realize knowing the information and executing on it are completely different things. And so, I'm not afraid to put it out there because I don't think most folks out there can execute on it the way we can. And it's our original ideas and I think whenever you have your own original ideas it's more ingrained within the team.

Will Scott: That's awesome, yeah. So, when you're recruiting it sounds like you're recruiting pretty fast. You got another five people starting next week.

Sonny: Yeah.

Will Scott: So you bring the core values into the interview process?

Sonny: For sure, we very much hire by them and fire by them. We screen against individuals to make sure they're our fit. For instance, we have unique personalities and backgrounds. Which is kind of strange for a core value, but in our business and in many sales businesses the sales pitch tends to sometimes be very robotic, and so the reason that I put that on there was because we do have a very diverse group of folks that's on the team that has great stories. And at the end of the day part of sales, actually one of the biggest component of sales is being able to connect with people. You can't connect with a robot who's doing a sales pitch.

Will Scott: Yeah.

Sonny: You need to connect with the person first, and people want to hear those great stories about who you are as a person, why you got into this business, what your history was and they connect them. Where you went to school. These little tidbits, and so we make sure that every rep covers the same general topics in their presentation. We want to make sure that they're themselves and that they're human beings and people connect with other human beings. So that's what becomes really important for us on that aspect of it.

Will Scott: Yeah it's in your business. A lot of my clients are B to B and or they're internet based and somewhat removed, but you're actually touching your clients in a very personal way.

Sonny: For sure.

Will Scott: And you need all of your employees to represent the culture right at the face there.

Sonny: Yeah, we're a very relationship-based organization. And so, you need to have that connectivity with the clients.

Will Scott: So, do you think all your employees could name your core values or name some portion of them at the top of their heads?

Sonny: I think, it's funny, I reflect on that question. I reflect on it often which is I think most people could name four out of seven.

Will Scott: Yeah, yeah.

Sonny: There's two ways I could approach that. One would be I need to be a drill sergeant. Make sure everybody understands it. I'm actually taking the other approach which is I'm going to cut them down to four, because I realize seven's a lot to try and make everybody remember. But if I pick the strongest four which we're in the process of doing that right now, trimming it down to four very strong ones. I think everybody can remember four.

Will Scott: It's funny you should say that, because that's exactly my experience and that's what I encourage people to do who are starting out on this journey, is to have no more than four.

Sonny: Okay.

Will Scott: Now, if you want to go to six or whatever, okay but in my experience, absolutely, people can remember four. And one of the things I do, I'll stop people in the hallway and say, "Hey, can you just run through our core values for us?" And it's like they got four fingers and when they get to the thumb they can't ... it's something there about that. And very often I find you can rationalize the core values to the ones that are the most important, and sometimes because we have similar to what you've put descriptive behaviors under each core value. You can have four but still embellish a little.

Sonny: Yeah, and cover a few things.

Will Scott: Yeah, and cover a few things there in terms of what do we mean by a certain value at our company?

Sonny: I do love the story aspect of all of it because I think that's what people tend to remember, is the story behind it and how it translated into a real-world experience.

Will Scott: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I think you addressed this earlier on, Sonny, but you have to manage growth, opening new stores, marketing, employees, customer relationships, profit of course, top line. You've also got to manage culture. Where do you put culture in the list of priorities that you have to take care of on a daily basis?

Sonny: So, certainly each and every one of those aspects of the business is important to be able to manage and I can't really let any single one of them slip otherwise you're in trouble real fast. But I'd say one thing I really encourage when we do our opening training is I present the core values and I present who we are as an organization. But then I also put it upon the team to do it. I don't say that culture's going to start with us. I say it's going to start with you. And so, what I encourage, is I encourage them to do their own things because I feel like that's such an authentic, real experience. For instance, if we're going to do a charitable thing I don't want to force them, the team. I don't want to come up with the idea. I let someone on the team pitch ideas about what they want to do, and then everybody on the team buys in and we all do that particular aspect of what it is. Or if someone wants to bring different food in every day and do a cooking contest or something like that. I really try and encourage and support those initiatives of what the team wants to bring in because I do think there's a certain level of authenticity, and I put it on them.

Sonny: I basically say, "Guys, culture doesn't start with us. It starts with you guys. You guys define the culture." You know who we are, we're a team but bring these things in terms of your personal experiences, and that's also leveraging unique personalities and backgrounds. I want that authenticity in terms where they feel part of it, and I think it helps them feel more inclusive and, like you said, it allows me to focus on other aspects of the business too that are important when I know that they're managing the culture aspects, not just me.

Will Scott: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Would you say the culture at Balani Custom Clothing is as good now as it's ever been?

Sonny: Let me reflect on that for a moment.

Will Scott: 'Cause it can go up and down a little bit depending on who's the employees and stuff.

Sonny: Yeah, it does go up and down. I would say especially if you're growing people fast culture can sometimes get away from you. I would say we're at a good point now, but for instance, maybe six/nine months ago I don't think we were. And all it really takes is one or two employees that you've let slip and it sends the wrong message to everyone on the team. The two employees that I'm referring to right now are no longer with the company as most CEOs or business folks would say. Immediately after that happens everybody gets stronger again.

Will Scott: Yeah.

Sonny: And so, I do think it's not a linear thing. It is an ebb and flow thing that whenever you have to make tough decisions and you test those core values and test them against the people, and push it and make the tough call that then it becomes stronger again every time.

Will Scott: Right, yeah. Do you think the company performs better? Can you say that we sell more? For example. Or we make more money when the culture is at its best?

Sonny: I will make that assumption because I've never known anything else. However, I'll also say to me, it's personal. One of the joys I have of being able to be a business owner and a CEO is I get to pick the people I want to work with, and I want to work with awesome great people that share the same values and share the same type of fun working experience that I want, and because I have that I get to have that privilege and I want to be able to give it to our team. And I think when everyone ... nowadays we spend so much of our time working, and so why not make it fun? Because I think then people have a place they want to come into. They have a place where they enjoy their coworker's company, the company and they enjoy spending time with them. And then it doesn't make work, work. It makes it fun and a pleasurable exactly, and I have to think at the end of the day that when you're engaged and you're having fun that it's going to have an impact on profitability.

Sonny: And to me, I'd say I don't even think I can question it. I just think I don't need to test that theory. I just know it.

Will Scott: Okay. Cool. By the way, having 14 locations, how do you manage a consistent culture across 14 different cultures in different cities?

Sonny: That's certainly been challenging. We have had situations where we've opened in a new location and tried to build that culture. It's much more challenging. Now what we've done is when we want to open a new city, we will take someone from an existing city to launch that new city. And that has been critical to being able to maintain that culture in the new city, because it's the seedling has been planted, and we can build around that.

Will Scott: That's awesome. Yeah, that makes total sense. And do you find people are up for that challenge? Yeah, I'll move. I'll champion the Balani brand in that next location.

Sonny: They love it.

Will Scott: Do they?

Sonny: There's a line that people want to try an do that for us. So, yeah, they're always up for the challenge.

Will Scott: Hey, what was it like before you owned your own company? Like when you were back in the trading business. What was culture like there?

Sonny: I was on an equity market desk, I was a NASDAQ trader. So, culture was ... there was a very strong culture there. It was a culture of get it done at all costs, and don't take anything personally while we're in the middle of a transaction. By that, there could be some heated exchange, let's call it. With a lot of colorful language during the middle of a transaction and as soon as the bell rang and the day closed we all went out for beers, and everybody was totally cool. No one took anything personally. It was fairly intoxicating culture actually, because to see that was like how do you not take stuff personally? But you learn how to do it real fast. Which is you're just representing clients and a lot of money in a very time-sensitive situation. So, tensions get very, very, very high and then they deescalate very, very fast.

Will Scott: Yeah. Interesting.

Sonny: Over drinks.

Will Scott: So very different from the culture you're building now.

Sonny: Very different, yes. I will say one thing that I think I was able to take away from that experience too was because I grew up in the business but I didn't really focus on it and then I went into trading, investment banking and that whole world. I think I also recognized what my client wanted to see as an experience. That was one of the main takeaways that I was able to have was I for a long time, I was my client, right? I was the perfect demographic of who I would be pursuing later on in this business. And so, I tried to create an experience and a team that would cater to them.

Will Scott: Yeah, okay. Well, Sonny, we're almost at the end of our time here and I really appreciate your time this morning.

Sonny: My pleasure.

Will Scott: Before we go, any final thoughts for our listeners in terms of advice?

Sonny: I'd say the one thing is, I think culture and core values are not just a company thing. I think they are a very personal thing that begin with the CEO. And I think it's something that has to be meaningful to you, and so what I mean by that is you can't take someone else's core values and make them your own. I don't think that really ever works. I think you have to figure out who you are as a person and then resonate down, because then there's that level of authenticity that is so true. And I think when anyone ever sees the core values it's not a coincidence, and I think they think of me in terms of ... there's a personification of that which I think makes it more powerful and more meaningful. I'm the one who's telling the stories and the one who's living it, and so it has to be personal to the CEO too.

Will Scott: Absolutely, yeah. You can't dream them up aspirationally. They have to be discerned from who you are and who the company is, and as you said, you went through a process where you also included Court. One of your key employees.

Sonny: Yep.

Will Scott: Yeah, well, that's awesome. Thanks for taking us through the story of the development of culture at Balani Custom Clothing. And would you say you're the biggest culture Czar over there? Are you leading that culture and the biggest champion?

Sonny: I would say for sure I am. We're in the process of building a leadership team right now. Which is coming together quite nicely. So, I'm trying to as we grow and expand not be the only one, because I do think that the leadership team also has to exemplify each and every core value, and they are held to a higher standard on that side because everybody looks to them similar to how they look to me. And so, over time as we expand and as we were talking about earlier with how do you maintain that culture as you grow and build? I think having the leadership team and a level below that and a level below that continue to maintain that culture to the highest degree is where all that pressure's not just on me, but it gets spread around in a good way to everybody else.

Will Scott: Awesome. Okay, well thank you very much. We'll finish on that note. And congratulations, Sonny, on your growth and what you've done with the company. And of course for sharing your story about your culture there today. Thank you very much.

Sonny: My pleasure. Thanks. Thanks, Will, always a pleasure. I appreciate being here.

Will Scott: Well, thank you.

Sonny: Great. Great. Bye.

Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to click subscribe. Check us out on the web at cultureczars.com, and we'll see you next time.