Dan Heurtz is CEO of The Preferred Group, a hospitality company which brings hotels to smaller, developing towns in the Midwest. A true, lifelong entrepreneur, Dan has been self-employed since he was 18.

Dan is also a certified EOS Implementer™ with around 20 clients. Dan helps his clients achieve the vision they seek for their company through a proven roadmap to success.

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In this episode, you will learn:

[03:42] What does Culture mean to Dan?
[13:51] Speak your Truth and other Core Values
[30:20] What to do when someone does not fit the Core Values

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1: From Cool Values to valued culture, here is your host, Will Scott interviewing another CEO about leading culture in their company.

Will Scott: Welcome listeners to another Culture Czars interview, where we talk to CEO's that care about corporate culture. We call this series from core values to value culture, and our purpose is to help CEOs create environments where employees love where they work, and why they work. Today I am talking Dan Heuertz. Dan is CEO and one of the founders of HIRIZE Hospitality and is also EOS implementer, and I'm excited that Dan is going to bring both of those elements into our conversation today. How are you Dan?

Dan Heurtz: Hey, good morning Will, good to see you.

Will Scott: Yeah, thanks. So you've got obviously several things going on Dan, tell us a little bit about your work and your professional practice?

Dan Heurtz: Yeah, so I've been a serial entrepreneur my whole life. I've actually never fully worked for anyone since I've been 18. I've always earned my own money. Certainly a lot of highs and lows being an entrepreneur.

Will Scott: Never easy.

Dan Heurtz: Nope, never easy but always worth it. Currently I have two businesses that I'm involved with. One is a hospitality business where I build small hotels in small towns. So I look for towns in population under 15,000 people throughout the Midwest that are growing and that have the right manufacturing or distribution base. Basically growing employers.

Dan Heurtz: And then I have an EOS practice where I'm a certified EOS implementer. I work with about 20 clients, and I help them achieve their vision. We call it VTH. So, we make sure everybody's on the same page when it comes to the vision. A plan to achieve, so how do you get traction to achieve it? And then the part that I love the most is H for healthy. And I believe H is two components. One is, healthy bottom line. You absolutely have to make money in order to continue to do what you love to do. And most important is H for healthy as a team and as a culture, top to bottom. And I believe strongly I'm one of the few EOS guys, and there's a ton of really good guys out there, that I put the emphasis on everyone in the company has to feel the culture. It's just who I am and what I love to do.

Will Scott: Thanks Dan for the introduction. Great to learn about what you're active with there. So you said H for two reasons. Healthy bottom line and healthy culture. And you're obviously passionate about making sure all your EOS clients are happy and have that culture. They're feeling the culture you said, right? I think you said everybody in the organization. So, I look forward to talking more about that. What does culture mean to you, when we talk about corporate culture?

Dan Heuertz: Culture always means two things. I think it's simple, but it's incredibly complicated to pull off. It's never easy, that's for sure. But I always think of core values. I think it's a ship without the rudder without the core values. Where they're meaningful and real, and not just like you've heard a hundred times, just plastered on the wall. But the way I simplify it in my head is vibe. What is the vibe? I mean, you can feel it when it's right. And I believe you can feel it when it's wrong. So if you have the right culture, or the wrong culture even, you can feel it through the vibe.

Dan Heurtz: So, I generally just try to get to there. What's the vibe of this place?

Will Scott: I agree, it's very much about how you feel. And do you think CEOs talk enough about feelings at work?

Dan Heurtz: No. So, a couple years back, I spent quite a bit of time with someone you know as will, Jim Leoto.

Will Scott: Oh, yeah.

Dan Heurtz: And we spent a lot of time talking about emotional intelligence. And for some reason. So let me put it together. To answer your question, for some reason in business, we're told not to talk about our feelings. Like they're separate, put in a box and you can never take them out. But what I learned from Jim Leoto and others and went on to study quite a bit was that, actually the more you are in tune with your emotions, the more emotionally intelligent you are, the greater results you'll get as a leader or as a CEO.

Will Scott: Well, after all, we're human beings with feelings. We spend a lot of time at work. We may as well feel good about what we're doing at work and who we're working with. And yeah, I think we are likely to perform better if we're feeling good about the place.

Dan Heurtz: And you've been an entrepreneur, Will. There's such a thin line today between personal and professional, right? It's so thin. I mean I blur those lines every day. I'm not even sure if there is a line anymore. But if there is, and let's assume there is for a minute, it's so thin that if you're going to be your true self all the time, well then feelings and emotions are part of who you are as a human being. So I don't know how you get away from it.

Will Scott: I often cite the example of the U.S. constitution, which is basically a set of values. What would it be like trying to coexist in this country without the constitution as a sort of compass? It would be chaos. In the same way, why would anybody want to run a company without some defined core values that they can build a deliberate culture around, as opposed to just getting a default culture?

Dan Heurtz: That's a great point. I'll tell you what, you triggered something in. So we have our core values, but we also have something that is more kind of like a constitution if you will, we call it our mantra. And we filter through it every day, every second of every day. And it's taken me by the way six years to get this right. So, it was not easy. And I'm a person that does put time into this and loves thinking about this stuff. And it still took me six years to get there.

Dan Heurtz: Our mantra is to do good things with good people. Do good things with good people. And I had that clarity. And I started going through life that way. So, Will if you weren't a good person, I would not be on this podcast with you. I just would not.

Will Scott: Really appreciate that, Dan.

Dan Heurtz: There's so many other good people out there I could spend time with or do things with. And I would just figure out a way not to do this.

Will Scott: So that makes it very easy for you to decide who you hang out with, and when you take on a project and when you don't?

Dan Heurtz: That's right.

Will Scott: Interesting.

Dan Heurtz: Last year I had this enormous discovery that I didn't know that I needed. So ‘do good things with good people’ was fantastic for me. I was actually on a Junto retreat. So part of the Junto institute has a Junto retreat and I've been a guest lecturer there since day one. And we were doing this exercise, and it became clear to me that there was something missing about ‘do good things with good people.’ And three things came to me during this retreat. And it was feed me, love me, appreciate me.

Dan Heurtz: So, do good things with good people. And all these are 50/50. So, feed me. Feed me good energy. Feed me knowledge. Feed me your sorrow. Your emotions, but just feed me and I'll do the same for you. Love me, you know I'm 53 years old now, and when I turned 50 was the only time ever in my life that I felt age. Like the birthday mattered. And it scared the shit out of me because I realized that day that time was infinite. And I'd never given it a moment of thought before that. So I've decided that like is not good enough, I'm going for love. So love me.

Dan Heurtz: And then last component is appreciate me. So, hey I'm as flawed human being as anyone. But I've got some good stuff going, so just appreciate me for me. And I'll tell you, that has elevated me I think as a human being and as what I do for work, more than anything I've been able to discover about myself in the last 25 years.

Will Scott: That's wonderful Dan, I really appreciate you sharing that. And one of the things that we're trying to help companies generate is that not only that their employees do feel valued, like feel appreciated. But they're also doing something meaningful for the world. And if you can get that going with your culture too, then you're just going to get, again, it's going to be more fun working together. And you're going to achieve more, and probably with more velocity. So, yeah. People want to feel valued and appreciated.

Dan Heurtz: I see that come true consistently, exactly what you're saying, with my EOS clients that truly embrace culture. That when they get it to, instead of always being top up, but when the bottom has the culture and lifts the top up? Wow what a powerful difference that is.

Will Scott: Yeah, absolutely. When everyone's kind of pulling the same direction, making decisions the same way, feeling unified. Yeah, absolutely. So, talk about that. Let's take HIRIZE Hospitality for example: what have you done there with culture? You each have core values and how did you determine those? Take us through the story there. 'Cause that's a relatively new company, isn't it?

Dan Heurtz: It is a new company. It's been in my head for a long time, and I finally decided to do something about it in a meaningful way four years ago. But it's been, I would say, brought to life in the last two and a half years. So one thing I have to note, and this is why I think it's so important to have not only core values, but just have a vision where you're truly all on the same page, is we're 100% remote. I live in Chicago, the guy that runs the business day to day is in Kansas City. Another guy's in Dallas. Another guy splits his time between Florida and actually Chicago, but more time in Florida. And another guy in Saint Louis.

Dan Heurtz: So there's no real core. We don't have that opportunity to rub elbows every day. What do you do to make sure that you have something that threads you together, holds you together? We did EOS. So we started with simply getting everybody together and going through a set process, to make sure we were on the same page.

Dan Heurtz: So, we all take the mantra very, very seriously. Do good things with good people. And if anybody just says at anytime you know, "I just don't think they're good people," Or, "We can't do good things with them," we're done. It makes it super simple in that regard. And we have that high degree of trust with one another, that there's no doubt we can discuss and we can challenge it, yes. But ultimately if one of us is saying, "I just, I can't get there," it's done then. We're just done.

Dan Heurtz: And that leads me to one of our core values. So one of our core values is truth. T-R-U-T-H. And now I'm not talking about lying. Yes, always tell the truth, please do that. Don't lie. What I'm saying is speak your truth. So if you're thinking it, say it. And say what you really mean, and not what your trying to not say, or be politically correct. Just f-ing say it, man. Just say it.

Will Scott: Truth, that's cool. And do you actually have some descriptive behaviors as I call them, or some explanation for what you mean by truth at HIRIZE Hospitality? That helps that?

Dan Heurtz: Yeah. So one, and this is not a new one, but it's one I've really embraced, being an entrepreneur's organization for almost 19 years. And that is a saying that says, "Silence is acceptance." So, part of truth is, if there's something ran around in your head that you disagree with, you must speak your truth. If not, silence is acceptance. So speak yours, is what we say. Speak your truth.

Will Scott: Okay. Very cool. And what's another core value?

Dan Heurtz: Another one is jump in. Jump in. So, jump in is just simply, you got to help people. And we believe deeply if you help others, you're gonna get a tenfold return. I think I'm living embodiment of that. I've always helped first, at times to my detriment, pocketbook and everything else. But I never looked at it that way. I just one, I think it's how I'm wired. But secondly, I just always have seen the benefit of it. And it may not ever appear for 10 years. But I know there's return somewhere along the way.

Will Scott: Yeah. So you've established these core values for HIRIZE Hospitality. If you had another company, would that have different core values? Or the same ones? Or would there be a blend? Because you've got a foot in both camps, how would that transpire do you think?

Dan Heurtz: I would leave it up to the team of the company. And, so ... you know I have different core values as being an EOS implementer. Those are core values that I had to adopt to fit into that culture, and that's well and good. I can tell you my last company that I sold now nine years ago, we had different core values. To me, it's about how the leadership, the people that are gonna really own and are accountable to bring those core values to life. It's gotta be real to them. Or I love the word-- If you think about the word core, that means it comes from inside, it's part of your core.

Dan Heurtz: So whatever those are, they are. I can tell you personally that the one thing I would, I don't know if I would say dictate, 'cause I don't like that word. But, just push really hard for is the mantra about doing good things with good people. That to me has to be on the table. The rest I can adapt to. There's two that I fight for every time. And that is one, the truth one we already talked about. And the other one is do what you say. Just do what you say. And if not, don't say it. If you're going to say it, then do it.

Will Scott: It looks like you're keeping things pretty simple there, too. It's not hard to kind of get your core values and to go with those.

Dan Heurtz: Yep, they're all simple. I can remember them too, that helps.

Will Scott: Yes. How many do you have in total.

Dan Heurtz: Just four. Do what you say, do the right thing, jump in and truth.

Will Scott: Yeah. I think four is the magic number. Anymore than that and it's hard for people to remember them. You definitely want your teammates to be able to recall quickly and easily the core values. And so that they can use them in every day language and talk about then. What do you, so you've got this disparate team that spreads all over the country. How do you keep the core values alive?

Dan Heurtz: So we have a weekly, [inaudible 00:17:32] EOS, we have a weekly level 10 meeting. When we talk about our ... We do a lot of sub-contractors for building hotels and managing hotels. So we talk about those 100% exclusively, if you're not bringing it up in terms of core value when you're talking about an employee or a contractor, or someone we're doing business with, you shout out the core value and then you go from there and whatever you want to talk about.

Dan Heurtz: So on a weekly basis, us as a team are forced to do it, if you will. But it's very natural now. But it was that discipline in the beginning that helped us keep, define it and bring it to life. And then I would say with the random communications and/or meetings, we talk more about doing good things with good people, that little framework really frames most of our conversations. So, there's a lot of little nuances, a lot of little takes offs you can take from that frame, and that serves as well over time.

Will Scott: Yeah. And what process did, I meant did you use to determine the core values? I imagine you used the EOS process and the eight questions?

Dan Heurtz: Yeah, the EOS process to me is the, it's not the best but certainly one of the best I've found. Where it's not taking it from a list and you're hoping you get lucky because it sounds cool. So, the EOS process is where you know you have a clean sheet of paper and you say, "Hey, if it's you, and you could think of one other person, and if you had 100 of them, you could conquer the world." And then write down their characteristics about that person. So you'll find out that they always do what they say. So that's one for ours. And I'm thinking very much of my best buddy since kindergarten, Kyle Black. We call him Fat Boy. And he's always in my head when I think of core values.

Dan Heurtz: So, he always does what he says. He always speaks the truth. He's the first guy to jump in and help first. And he's the best person I know in this world that does the right thing. Now, Kyle and I have never sat down and had a formal discussion about core values. But I also believe it makes perfect sense that your friends, your real friends, not all those hundreds of friends around the edges. But your true friends, you have the same core values otherwise they would not be your friends.

Dan Heurtz: So it just always made it really simple when I think of him, I can always get there in a good way. But I'd take 100 of him any day, and we would easily conquer the world.

Will Scott: That's very cool. So have you worked with Fat Boy?

Dan Heurtz: I have not.

Will Scott: No?

Dan Heurtz: I easily could. But no, I've never worked with him.

Will Scott: Okay, okay. That's a very interesting analogy. And I know you've done this for many clients as well. Have you got any stories around where some of your clients, maybe you're working with them for a year or two now, where their culture wasn't great? And maybe the business performance wasn't great? But you've done your work there and now you know, some period of time later they can say, "Wow, yeah this helped transform our business."

Dan Heurtz: Okay, yeah. Two examples. And there's a lot. But two in particular. Where one company, we got the core values, they felt right. And they had put a lot of time and energy and actually had rolled core values out maybe two years prior to me working with them as an EOS implementer. And so, the core values changed slightly, but there's this piece that is part of EOS where it talks about the marketing strategy, and you can do a thing called the guarantee. And I take either the guarantee and/or pledge.

Dan Heurtz: So what I found interesting is when you can have core values, but your company's kind of missing something, that rallying cry that everyone can get behind. So this company created a pledge. And they called it their five star pledge. And all it did was took their core values to what they wanted to connect with their customers about. So, for example, you'll get a quote within two hours. The average time is like six years, on average. They put it at two. Well that tied to their core values.

Dan Heurtz: Delivery, if it's by 10 in the morning, we'll get it on a truck that day. Never done it before in the history of their company. Now it took them six or nine months to actually be able to live up to their own pledge. But the entire company has been transformed around this pledge, which is centered around their core values. And just thought it was so powerful when you work that hard to connect all the circle, core values to the pledge of what the value you want to bring to your customers. And then you're this totally transformed business.

Dan Heurtz: And I can absolutely tell you with certainty, this year, they've been in business for 80 some years as a family business, they’re more profitable and healthier than they've ever been.

Will Scott: Fantastic.

Dan Heurtz: I got one other story to share. Because it was just ... It's almost, if you're an EOS implementer, it's what you would hope for when you dream, if you're really having an effect on people. Real positive effect. We do the core values exercise, similar to what I just told you about a few minutes ago. We walk through it, if you had 100 of them, what would their characteristics be? Oh, I should give you one back point first.

Dan Heurtz: This company had core values, but it really was the "Oh, we picked them out of a book, threw them on a wall." And they had them everywhere, and no one had no reality to them.

Will Scott: I find that's often the case, by the way. That people kind of know how to get core values, but they don't really know often what to do with them. It's a post on the wall, but how do you really make them come alive and thrive, and use them to drive performance?

Dan Heurtz: Well, so this is what I saw at this company. So they had that poster like we were just talking about. We went through and said, "Okay, let's just make sure. Whatever they are, they are. But let's do the exercise anyway." And so in EOS it's called doing a peer. So we took the peer approach, and we got done with it, had them up on the whiteboard. And I was like, well there they are. And me, my head was just kind of, let's move onto the next thing. 'Cause as an implementer, sometimes you get caught up with, you’ve got to move on. And the owner, the entrepreneur said, "Not so fast." I mean, he was literally just struck to the point he goes, "I need a moment here. I've been in business for 20 years, and I never thought a set of core values would have real meaning to me." I mean this guy, water in the eyes, tears in the eyes, just absolutely struck by what had just happened.

Dan Heurtz: And I'll tell you, I don't know, and I've had a lot of them. But one of the most powerful moments I've ever had as being an EOS implementer right there. So, what I learned from that by the way was, one, you’ve got to appreciate the work you're doing from their perspective, and not just move onto the next thing. And let that moment evolve, man. Very, very powerful moment. And still kind of gives me chills when I tell the story.

Will Scott: Absolutely. And those are some of the best moments, aren't they? In the workplace. Is when you really are. And again, it's coming back to feelings. There's some feeling that is just a little special, and yeah. Take the time around it. But also embrace it and look for opportunities to create those. I mean, as an EOS implementer, I'm sure that you've seen some of your most memorable moments will be when emotion was high in the room. Around an individual sharing something, or around doing some meaningful work, so yeah. And when they walk out of that room, everyone's feeling more like a team, aren't they? And they more want to conquer the world.

Dan Heurtz: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.

Will Scott: Well, thanks for sharing those two stories about a couple of your clients that have, I guess embraced the core values. In those two examples, what are they doing to keep the values alive on a weekly, daily, monthly basis?

Dan Heurtz: Well, the first company, that pledge has just moving core values and how they operate. And thus they're breaking all their records, revenue, profits, healthy culture. Their employee net promoter score, so the ENPS score, has jumped something like 35 points over the course of this year. I mean, to the point where they're wondering if the company they're hiring, if they're doing this survey correctly. So, that's really great.

Dan Heurtz: But the other person I was telling you about where they just needed a moment. So, I think that what happened there was found out the difference between just kind of grabbing them out of a book 'cause they sounded cool and throw them on the poster. Versus, this really did come from the core. And so when they're that real, that much truth behind them. Then yeah, I want to go out and share this with everyone. This is what I want the company to be about. And to live it.

Dan Heurtz: So, you know, there's been-

Will Scott: Yeah, that's very cool and that reminds me. I'm not sure the listeners need reminding, they probably know this too. But yes, that core values can be aspirational. They need to come from within and this process of discernment, where you actually try to discern what are the values of the company? And then of course the good values. And then you build the company around those. And I like to say, ask yourself, do they feel real? Do they feel like they are your company? And if you can come up with some unique words too, that help make it special and unique to use so you're the only company in the world that could have this set of core values, I think that makes it even more personified. As opposed to just having integrity and respect, which a lot of people have.

Dan Heurtz: Yeah, those are pretty empty if you ask me. You’ve got to work harder than that.

Will Scott: Yeah, yeah.

Dan Heurtz: The one thing you were kind of talking about that reminded me. The same guy who needed the moment to collect himself when he got the core values. So he went out and systematically rolled it out to every single employee. I think he's 60 or 80 employees, something in there. And it was a lot of team huddles, all hands meetings where they all came together. And you've probably heard the expression, "To be heard for the first time you’ve got to say it seven times." What I learned from this guy was, nope, that's not right. With core values you need to say it 700 times. You're never, ever done saying it. And I've coined, I stole that from him now. 'Cause he's the one who told me, he goes, "You’ve got to say it 700 times if you want this stuff to stick." I was like, that's brilliant, I'm stealing it.

Will Scott: Yep, yep. And I definitely like to see the defining ways to use every day language. And at every meeting. So in that meeting rhythm, they've also got something that's just prompting the core values discussion. And then, are they also being deliberate about how they're hiring people to fit their culture?

Dan Heurtz: Yeah, so EOS certainly is a big proponent of hire, fire, review.

Will Scott: Reward.

Dan Heurtz: Reward, thank you. On core values. But I'll tell you, some people struggle with that. Some of my EOS clients really do struggle with it. They get the hire part, but for some reason they struggle with the fire part. And so, if I, around core values and firing, where I do the most coaching is getting them comfortable with the importance of firing. And oh hey, we're not out there promoting firing people, that's not the point here, please don't take it that way.

Will Scott: I like to use the word un-hire.

Dan Heurtz: Un-hire, there we go, much better. So, you know and especially there's some people that have been around for a while that, if they're not on the same page as you and you've introduced this core value and you want to bring the company in a new direction. One, I do think you need to be very patient, and if anything kind with them to give them some time to adapt. And your job is to coach them up to success, and hopefully they can adapt. But at some point you gotta draw the line, too. And un-hire them.

Dan Heurtz: So, I guess all that just leads me to what I was gonna say in the beginning, which was, if there's an area that people don't feel confident in, it's that fire, un-hiring part. Using core values there. Well, nobody likes to fire anyone. But more so than that it's just, how does that work? How do I actually-

Will Scott: Well, and I find what people analyze is so helpful in that respect. If you run the people, analyze it across your entire company, and not just around capabilities but around the core values, how they fit the core values. There's usually a small group, and I give them sort of green, yellow, red score. There's red ones at the bottom that are just not fitting. They're ones that are causing the culture to not feel great. And if you do take the courage and step int other room and have that un-hiring conversation. And by the way I think core values can help a lot with making that conversation, that difficult conversation a lot easier. If you're referencing the words that are kind of in tablets of stone, you can't argue against them. So I find using those for that un-hiring conversation make that decision and that conversation a lot easier.

Will Scott: But boy, once you've made those transformations, now the whole culture just breathes a new relief. And from then, make sure you hire people that do fit. Which is not easy. But, and then you just again over a few months you can transform the way you feel about, or see or feels about his or her culture.

Dan Heurtz: That's exactly right, you nailed it. I have one thing to kind of layer in there. And I really mean you nailed it with what you just said. There's a saying, I know it's an EOS, or it's used in EOS, but I believe it's used outside of EOS as well. "One great," the word great is important here. "One great people move per quarter." One great people move per quarter, that can be sometimes un-hiring someone, because they are the ones that aren't having the culture work the way you want it to.

Dan Heurtz: Or two, especially if you have a discipline where you hire based on core values, you add that one person who's that great fit to lead whatever they need to lead. What I find sometimes is it gets really confusing for people. They want to look at three, four, five people at the same time. Hey, everything takes time. Takes much longer than we all have patience for, usually. So what's the one great people move you're gonna make this quarter? So I like to add that into the conversation as well.

Will Scott: So that again, they're setting goals to do something deliberate around. And that could be a hiring or an un-hiring, training or something like that. But it's an investment in the people, which of course is what ultimately determines the culture, too.

Dan Heurtz: Yep.

Will Scott: Super interesting, thanks Dan. So you've told us a couple of great stories about a couple of your clients. What would these clients say if they were asked the question, can they track business performance. Like can they track how strong a top line and bottom to the investment they've made in culture? What would they say to that?

Dan Heurtz: Well, certainly the one I was telling you about that had the core values and the pledge where they wove those two together. They really are having their best year, ever. There's another company I'm thinking of, it's a tech company. They would tell you that, before they focused on the core values, and they just have 90 some people, it really was a grinder for them to get their heads around the people. So the people analyzed, and they kept working it. They actually created coaching teams because they were that dedicated to the team.

Dan Heurtz: I do know that they would tell you that it's a culture now had them make the ... Fast 50 cranes, things like that. And they will tell you, I believe they even said it in the interview, that that's a direct output of culture.

Will Scott: That's awesome, yeah. That's certainly what I believe. You get the culture right, and the other things will tend to follow. So, yeah. And you've mentioned like a mantra a few times. So do you like to encourage your clients not really have core values, but have a mantra?

Dan Heurtz: So, I'm totally biased. Because for me, without it, I would be more confused than I am already. But no, it's just has simplified the world for me, and I can't speak highly enough about it. So, I don't know. I would say maybe it's individual. But for me personally, it has just been such a great compass. When Jim Leoto, Big Jim was around, he and I spent hours talking about it. Over years talking about it. And he found it so interesting which made it even more interesting for me. When I was getting close and when I finally got it, I mean it was a moment. And for me, I spent a lot of time on myself. And so, for me it has made me a better person, by having a mantra.

Will Scott: Yeah. That's awesome. I figured out some time ago that for me, I loved creating environments where people thrive. And if I thought about putting that first, then I felt that was-

Dan Heurtz: There you go.

Will Scott: Yeah. But funnily enough, I was with the master of discovering your why's Simon Sinek. And I told him about this and he said, "Well that's okay, but why?" And so I was very quickly able to finish by saying, "So that they can be the best that they can be." And he said, "That's better." He didn't say that's great, but he said that's better.

Dan Heurtz: Well, maybe what you just said. And I didn't know it. And I was fortunate enough to spend some time with Simon like eight years ago. I was part of entrepreneurs organization global leadership. And we spent some time with him trying to figure out what the purpose of the organization was. And he led us through some exercises. And he was really the spark that led me to do good things with good people. I had all kinds of other garbage I was saying for many years. And then I finally came up with this.

Dan Heurtz: I felt there was a why missing. And then that's when the feed me, love me, and appreciate me. And I didn't even know it till right now, frankly, you just gave me clarity on it. But there was, I just knew like I was telling you earlier, I just knew something was missing and I didn't know it. And that just has pulled it all together for me. And I feel more confident than I've ever felt in my life.

Will Scott: Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. So you're feeling aligned, really? Right? You're feeling aligned with who you are. And your life's work is part of that, and you've sort of discovered your purpose. So that's really cool. And I'm fortunate enough to feel the same way.

Will Scott: Okay, well look. We're pretty much at our time, Dan. It's been an awesome conversation this morning. Any final thoughts for the listeners about how important culture is, if they're considering where the place it in their strategic priorities?

Dan Heurtz: Again, I try to look at everything as simple as possible. And I just truly believe you get out what you put in. And if you’re disappointed in how you feel about your business, I think there's a direct correlation. So, I always look at it as, if you go all in, you'll get a tenfold return. So you just have to go all in. I just don't understand anything but that. And maybe just that, to cap that off is that again, when I turned 50 I had this heart raising moment of, "Oh my god, times not endless. It's going to end at some point."

Dan Heurtz: So, we only have one life. We only have one life. And we work a lot. And why not make that the best it can be? It's just where I think we should be as an evolved culture. An evolved people.

Will Scott: Absolutely. And using culture to help people appreciate and love where they work, and then a core purpose to help people love why they work. Is just so worthwhile. So basically what I'm hearing is today is that you do the work, it's worth the investment. And if people want to learn more about how to do that, they can certainly go to my website www.cultureczars.com and learn more about what I recommend in terms of how people go from, or how you can take your organization from simply having core values to truly having a value culture.

Will Scott: And so, thanks again Dan. Appreciate it, and have a great week.

Dan Heurtz: Yeah, thank you. Good seeing you, take care all.

Will Scott: Cheers, bye.

Dan Heurtz: Cheers.

Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to click subscribe, check us out on the web at cultureczars.com, and we'll see you next time.